Get Together

Vulnerability is key when connecting fathers đź’š Bruce Muchelule, DADing Different

Episode Summary

An interview hosted by Whitney Ogutu and Bailey Richardson with Bruce Muchelule founder of DADing Different, a community to support young and first time dads. We talked with Bruce about connecting people who are not used to being vulnerable.

Episode Notes

“The journey is not so much about how many people respond. You can just impact one person and they can impact you back.” - Bruce Muchelule

When Bruce became a dad, he wasn’t quite sure how to know if he was doing things right. He reached out on Twitter to see if there were any support groups or places for dads to find peer mentorship. He couldn’t find one, but he did receive DMs from many fathers looking for a community like Bruce.

DADing Different began as a space for young and first-time dads to exchange notes, share experiences, and support each other on their journeys. Bruce has found vulnerability to be key to meaningful sharing, and he designs the community to encourage that. Too many structures and processes can be off putting for a community. Bruce opts instead for serendipity and asynchronicity in a WhatsApp group.

We talked with Bruce about creating a space that is “member-led” not “leader-led” and opting for a small group of engaged, eager members. 

Highlights, inspiration, & key learnings:

👋🏻Say hi to Bruce and learn more about DADing Different.

✨Say hi to Whitney, “Get Together” correspondent.

📄See the full transcript 

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Episode Transcription

Note: This transcript is automatically generated and there may be some errors. Timestamps may vary slightly based on episode announcement & commercial placement.

 

Bailey (00:00):

Welcome to get together. It's our show about ordinary people, building extraordinary communities. I'm your host, Bailey Richardson. I'm a partner at people in company and a co author of get together how to build your community with your people.

 

Whitney (00:20):

And I'm Whitney Ogutu, a Get Together correspondent.

 

Bailey (00:23):

Every episode we interview everyday, people who have built extraordinary communities about just how they did it. How did they get the first people to show up? How did they grow to hundreds, maybe even thousands, more members, Whitney, who did you choose to interview today?

 

Whitney (00:40):

Today we are talking to Bruce Muchelele, founded at DAD-ing different, a community of young and first-time dads would exchange notes, share experiences, and support each other on their DAD-ing journeys.

 

Bailey (00:52):

And what's one thing you learned from our conversation today with Bruce Whitney.

 

Whitney (00:58):

One thing that's to that is sometimes too many structures and processes can be detrimental to the success of communities such as DAD-ing Different a serendipitous approach is likely to produce better results, especially in cases where vulnerability is key. Following on the point of vulnerability, Bruce tells us that men are not where to struggle enhancement with technology and straggling. A more synchronous approach to communication has to fight yielded more connection than any other approach.

 

Bailey (01:24):

Yeah, I learned so much about what it takes to connect a group of people who aren't used to being vulnerable with one another strangers with one another through our conversation with Bruce. Thanks for bringing it to us. Whitney. You ready to jump in?

 

Whitney (01:41):

All right. Thank you so much, Bruce, for joining us on the show today. We like to say you can't fake the funk. People who are organizing communities often have a personal motivation for doing so. Why are you drawn to starting that indifferent as a community? And was there a moment where you realized you needed more support as a young father

 

Bruce (02:01):

So I didn't start that DAD-ing different because I wanted to start it. So a bit of a Genesis is when my wife was pregnant and living to pass giving bus, then my child was a few months. She must have been about five months old. So as time kept moving on, I kept struggling struggling to find my place in that dynamic. So in the same time when time keeps moving on, you keep wondering, okay I want to do this philosophy that I wanted to be a really good quote, unquote good in prison, active partner. But when my daughter came, I didn't know how that was looking. Like I didn't know what I was being well about being poorly. And I didn't have any reference points so to speak. I mean, I'm very close to my dad. I see Ellis look at him as an older guy, so he's not native to my generation in my perspective right now.

 

Bruce (03:09):

So my initial thought was, let me just give it a go and show me the, let me see if I can find any existing platform for young dads too, just for my own support. Cause I felt like I was kind of struggling. So I reached out to on Twitter I mean asking for in existing platforms for young dads and tons of those nuns. So I was being put into any. So was like, you know, what he's feeling want to go away can get worse. So I realized so many dads are reaching out to me on DM telling me, Oh, if you find this, want me to find this book. So I was like, let's start one. So that's how that indifferent came to be in around October continuing to, yes,

 

Whitney (03:59):

It seems the motivation is very personal. So King to understand even as you had members reaching out to you you know, for, for, for similar community, whether they're people you've already identified that you developed to be part of the community and how did you find those first few weeks?

 

Bruce (04:18):

So I wasn't so much looking for mentorship as I was looking for where you're going to community. Yeah. I don't know how else to put that and even look at it in hindsight, as fate would have it, the closer I am to you or the closer you are to me, the more difficult it is to have that kind of very deep conversation, especially as men. So yeah, so I wasn't necessarily saying that I'd want weakness in the group. It's just whatever is in that space, in that space to have organic conversations and wait on Escobar, strobes about challenges and how we can, we can navigate the waters. Let's, let's talk this thing together.

 

Bailey (05:06):

Yeah. I was just impressed by the level of insight you had about what kind of connection you needed and insights you needed. I feel the same, that there's a big difference between mentorship and peer mentorship for me personally. But could you explain a little bit more about why you didn't need mentorship? Like how did you know that you needed folks that weren't maybe a lot older than you were, that were going through similar experiences, but weren't friends already or people in your life, how did you, how'd you get to that realization?

 

Bruce (05:44):

I guess I can answer that in hindsight. So even saying that I didn't need mentorship, it's purely in hindsight. So at the time, what was very clear about is that I wanted honest conversations and living up to my FNA expecting and the child coming. And we are five months into, into my daughter being, you know, in this world. I realized that even amongst the very close of friends that I had or hub, we couldn't have those conversations. So when I was reaching out, you know, seeking a platform, I wasn't necessarily looking for friendship because I already have friendship. I was just seeking a very organic platform. And so in hindsight, I can see that if I have a friend and we sit and have conversations are more guiding it's, it's a very struggle conversation for some reason, yet if it's a stranger, we're just able to just have hours and hours of conversations about our genes. For some reason, I don't know, I don't have a solution to that,

 

Bailey (06:57):

Not apparent, but it seems like there's a lot of values based decisions or maybe science or not science, traditions based decisions. And perhaps those things can come into conflict with existing relationships. Whereas with strangers, maybe there's less tension in kind of like how you make decisions to parent that that's my imagination of kind of what you're talking about. But, but does that sound accurate or would you describe it differently?

 

Bruce (07:27):

I mean, yeah. And probably gender, gender has something to do probably. Yeah, because I've also had, I've also had conversations with mums ish in that software user. You'd find that the, you already have this community amongst friendships, so it can double up as a friendships support groups kick in as in when it's needed. But for you'd find that for guys. I mean, it don't speak always, but I've found even from a console that other guys attempts changes as able to freely join in [inaudible] means they're lacking that community somewhere and they have friends too. So I realized that the same experience, I mean, the experience I had was probably to be kitted amongst a couple of days. Yeah.

 

Whitney (08:23):

So now you have the community you have the objective of the community. You perhaps have your first few members initial community meetups, helping link a lot of the groundwork and structures for the new community. So what was the first session? Like, was it a meetup and what made it special?

 

Bruce (08:42):

I mean, the fast sessionals even starting the group itself was very difficult for me because as I mentioned, I did not, I did not want to start, I don't plan to start startup platform. I planned to join one, which was already existing. So when guys reached out and said, Hey, let's start. So all of a sudden that about what maybe 40, 40 numbers that day. So I'm like, okay, so what am I going to do with this 40 number? So when I began the platform on WhatsApp or like, okay, so what next, you know, I mean, you've created a group. I don't even know if I came up with that name on the day or, or a day later, two days later, but so a day passes the next day. So I'm like, okay. I to do something with this platform that I have. So I started the conversation on WhatsApp.

 

Bruce (09:37):

It must have been nerve wracking, even thinking about is already stressing me. Yeah. So yeah, so it was nerve wracking because I mean, I have, and then I had a five month old child, quite nearly five months. It wasn't in four or five months. So I don't know what they're doing in here. This guy is now, I don't know, 40 games have joined our group and they assume I know what I'm doing. I have no idea what to do. So by the time I mean kind of figured out a way of, of just letting my personality show in the group. So it's not a struggle for me. So I don't have to switch between modes. It's just me being me individualize, even it comfortable for the next person to be themselves and just be called experiences. So the model is kind of a lot of WhatsApp and then also use Instagram a lot for other conversations. Some like some different, but a lot of my meetups are not all of us together, but just to one-on-one or even Jessica was just when we meet anywhere randomly let's just have, so it's not, it's not as organized as you might believe that. There's not say let's meet on the dyno. So we would have zoom calls once in a while, but most of them are as organic as possible. Just when you link let's us, begin those conversations and see where it takes us.

 

Whitney (11:07):

Was there a reason to have it a bit more open and not structured in terms of, you know, when to have the meetings or when to have the discussions, and also perhaps the reason behind having WhatsApp as the, as the default platform to, you know, to start and set up the community as opposed to see physical meetups. Was there any reason for those two decisions?

 

Bruce (11:30):

You'd find for guys the less structured it is, the more participation you would get at the more honest, so that we are a group of now, we are both 80, that we're a group of 80 guys who don't know each other who are barely metal as a whole. It makes it easier to have that Colbert show as opposed to meeting together at the same time. It will become very difficult for Bruce, for Joan, for Joseph to speak on the experiences. I don't know if it's an agenda thing. I don't know whatever comes to play. I know to be very difficult to have the kind of culture that we we have now to replicate it face to face when you're all together. Maybe I'm maybe I'm just not equipped to do too much thing yet because I'm probably going to need psychology or a community work. But I, you know, from my, from my analysis of the platform that I, that we run, I do not know how we can all meet together in a structured way, unless, unless in a base or activity-based kind of thing, then we can trace our conversations from there. Yeah.

 

Whitney (12:51):

Very interesting. So just to get this right using WhatsApp as the, as the default platform for communication. So these are texts besides the texts and the zoom sessions that you've already mentioned as well. Is there any other way the members interact in any sort of shared activity that you partake in besides the two that you've already spoken about?

 

Bruce (13:11):

Yes. Like for instance, I'm trying to work on something with with a restaurant where for the month of April dads come in with their kids will get some percentage off on brunch. So let's see how that plays out. Because as I said, we may not be very interesting. So once, once we know being vulnerable is already a hope in itself. So if I'm reminded that I'm being vulnerable by default adjusted in lock into, I default into my, my default settings. So you'd find that this that's why I even trained to work on this, but I've seen, let me add to how it can pull out, because that's my thought has always been, let's try to do something activity-based and see how that works because it works when we are one, two guys, one, two Ks in different shifts, but now all of us together would be very would way interesting to see our Play-Doh.

 

Whitney (14:21):

So just circling back on challenges as well. Are there any cultural or societal norms you've had to overcome or find our workaround to ensure that the value of the community stands?

 

Bruce (14:32):

Yeah, I mean, I mean, we're not wired to not work to struggle as when I say we, I mean, men, not where to struggle. So when also not where to acknowledge struggle to acknowledge needing help or even asking for help. So that in itself was certain internal struggle. I remember even now to check in my wife to see whether she's okay with that, because I did not know when my daughter Kim, that I would struggle. So I was not aware that it does not any way in my writing or my teaching or learning that I would struggle with that. So I remember when, when it was coming, coming and coming. So I had to really check in, in my life continuously ask her, are you, are you okay with all of this? You know, see just fingers crossed that she was like, yeah, I mean, this is fine.

 

Bruce (15:29):

It's good to ask for support. So, you know, even something subconsciously you're like, okay, I'm struggling with this now, what next? So I can imagine all the guys who also have a questions and I, part of the indifferent, I'm sure dilute this kind of struggled. So I wonder if they even publicize it in such groups, because that's a question I don't want to ask. So I can imagine being part of a platform like this. I wonder whether you admit you are, because that's admitting you could use some support. So it's, yeah, it's cultural, there's some cultural you answered somewhere. There even it'd be places in, in guys would, especially those who are not either not fathers or older fathers or just don't subscribe to the notion of help would be like a new guy. What is your, do you know what is, you know, they didn't even make it to femineity. So it's, I mean, it's normal, I guess it's no more, I don't know. I don't know if I can say across the world, but I know in Africa, in Kenya, it's a normal thing to associate conversations with to meet.

 

Whitney (16:41):

Bruce, just looking back at at you know, the challenges that you've experienced so far, and even just the experience in itself of, of trying to build this community. Are there any principles or structures that you found useful in, in building a community or that have been effective in building that, that indifferent as a community in itself?

 

Bruce (17:03):

So I have a day job. So how I look at that in different, I look at it as a partial or in my mind of putting in such a way that the Le I mean, the next structure, the T's in my mind, the less pressure it puts on me. So it's, it's an extension of me. So it's just part of an extension of the guys that are part of the group. So the structure I use is just via it's to ensure that I'm as organic as possible to just talk about my day-to-day experiences. So I don't put too much thought into all of it. So it remains just free as possible because in my mind, my mind that new friend is, is like my second book. So Anne and I had wanted to stay on forever and for it to keep giving back, if that makes sense. So it's something which I'd not want to let go of because it becomes stressful to me. So there's structure that I use, the cheat code that they use for me is just keep it as organic as possible, but it becomes, it's just, it continues to be a source of joy and a source of passion, not a source of stress for me.

 

Whitney (18:28):

I think the thing that's really standing out, even as we speak is the theme of, you know, serendipity. So I see you trying to enable serendipity throughout, you know, throughout all the processes that you, that you use to build and sustain this community. So that's a very interesting fact. And what have you learned about community building as, as an activity, you know, pro this time, even from when people are reaching out to, to point them, to these communities, to setting up the community itself, to having discussions to now, you know, having them one to many, we're now taking it further to sort of having like branches with the dads and their children. So what exactly about community building, have you learned throughout this process from the stats of the community to this point in time,

 

Bruce (19:12):

First of all, it's needed. And sometimes we margin that community building is a reserve of someone else, but it's someone else who is supposed to do it with someone, someone who's supposed to commit. I mean, what I've learned from this is that we all have abilities in your love ideas, because even conversations I have with people would come with so many ideas of the different directions that, that, that indifferent in my I suppose is usually I try to find a manual way of saying, just start one like that, because, you know, I'm limited, mad, but by my abilities and met by my ideas. So we all have ideas of coming to work or even just platforms which can help, can support even can help be possible yourself in the next person. Just, it's not as big as it's not as big and amorphous as we might need to be. Even you, even me, a simple person can start one. So it means even you a simple person, or even a more complex muscle than I am, can begin one that's, that's something I've learned. And just take it at your own pace because we will work differently, ticketed you're a young person and just enjoy the journey. Yeah.

 

Bailey (20:40):

And your answer are you you say, just start, and it's not that complicated when she wants to, maybe the community gets. And one thing that we've seen from interviewing lots of people who have organized communities, is that the, one of the biggest challenges is actually the fear at the beginning of putting yourself out there. Maybe no, one's going to show up. No, one's going to respond and leading a group as a man where you talk about these conversations have conversations that you feel like men are normally not super comfortable or confident having. How did you feel at the outset of organizing? Was, was there any sense of fear or nervousness or worry when you were getting started?

 

Bruce (21:26):

Massive, massive field? Do I? Yes. And I mean, it's still, still there that's manifest differently. Maybe someone comes with weight makes me procrastinate on some ideas. So maybe also have some money for station or some fears. But it has been a year in what, four months time. I've kind of learned that it helps me too. So even some college students, I have, I don't have to get 10 responses for as long as they get one that can help me. So we are all on the, yeah. So I look at it as we are all on a journey and it's symbiotic. So, I mean, let's just keep holding the journey. The journey is not so much about how many people respond, how many people retweet, it's about we don't, you can just impact one person and they can impact you back. So that needs selfie. If that's the case, then everyone wins. Everyone being can be two people. It can be 50 people.

 

Bailey (22:35):

A hundred percent agree. It's like, it's, we're so sort of ingrained to think, at least in the U S maybe about quantity and kind of in like marketing terms of like, how many people liked this, or how many people attended this. But I think the most impactful experiences in my life have often been much smaller than that. More personal than that. So I appreciate that insight

 

Bruce (23:03):

In terms of the platforms that have the one, which is the original one is a WhatsApp group. So find, for instance, part of the reason why it's still curated in terms of numbers is if someone requests to join, I kind of like having a conversation with the person because you'd find many times you'd come across the editing different posts. So they initially actually we need Jack. So just like add me, or you've heard about it through someone else and like me, but you'd find if you're not tuned in to have the conversations, there is no value adding. So if, if I'm coming as Bruce to be quiet and not share my experiences and not have conversations, there's no need, there's no need for that. So I kind of like having preconversations to be like, okay, are you in this space to actually speak about your journey and your challenges and find that half the time when the more I probe you realize this person is not, he's not there yet, or they're not ready for what it entails. It's not easy. So it find an, a mix in a time, keep the conversation, not immediate responses to kind of let it simmer it. We find many times guys fall off. So I'd rather, I'd rather, we have 80 people who would like to have the compensation in Blake to put in there, you know, the, the energy and the vulnerability, but then 200 who are not yet or not in this space to have the compensation.

 

Whitney (24:44):

What other pieces of advice would you have for aspiring community leads who are looking to start communities that are in particular very similar to that in different?

 

Bruce (24:54):

I don't know where I got this lantern, but I use it a lot. Nowadays, some journeys are clean, put on to take on a loan. So find even the biggest pieces of advice have come from people who have begun communities or who, you know, were doing that kind of platforms. So my biggest, my biggest tip comes from that is be very free with your advice, so to speak or your insight. I don't know, for some reason, people find it easier to hold on to whatever skills or insights they have. I don't know where we got that from, but if we exchange, we exchange ideas and experiences, know how that can push with me to start top platform on I dunno, cards or to push Bayney to start her platform on shoes. It doesn't have to be linked to daddy, or even if it is better, even better. So I think for some reason we have a mindset of if someone begins something that is related to me, that's a competition. No, I mean, you only as you're reaching you reach someone who has a different Twitch, so it doesn't have at all. So I think mindset is let's be free to exchange notes and experiences, and then let's move to beginner things. If they put in put fail, I put quote-unquote because failure is just a construct. You don't know what you learned from that failure. So just beginning [inaudible]

 

Whitney (26:39):

And how can listeners who are interested in being part of the community reach

 

Bruce (26:44):

Out or join the community Twitter and Instagram, that indifferent yeah, that indifference. Yes. D a D a D a D I N G D I F F E N T. Both on Twitter and Instagram.

 

Bailey (27:02):

What is something that you now know as a father because of this community or that you now feel confident in as a father, because of this community that you think you wouldn't know if you hadn't built it?

 

Bruce (27:15):

Well, it's it's a lot of guesswork. It's a lot of taking a time and you are not alone in your, your highs and your lows, because things you may think you may think are unique. Unexperienced is unique to you. You have no idea how similar it is to the next person. So the more people you are connected to you realize it's a shared experience, a shared journey. So it lightens the weight and it tucks into its the positives. So without not that indifferent. Wow. I do not know. I don't know the journey. I don't know where I'd be. I can't imagine it. I do not want to mother me and I keep saying that without that indifferent, I don't know. I don't know what my relationship with my daughter or my wife would be like, I just know to be a complete struggle. Yeah.

 

Bailey (28:23):

Amazing. Thank you. If you want to connect with Bruce motor in LA, you can reach him at Bruce Mitchell on Twitter. That's Bruce [inaudible] on Twitter. Thank you to a team. Thank you. [inaudible] Cuban for engineering and editing. Greg David Boies design work in Katie O'Connell for marketing people. So if you want to find out more about the work we do as people and company, head to our website, people and.company. Also, if you want to start your own community or supercharge, when you're already a part of our handbook is here for you. Visit get together book.com to grab a copy. It's full of stories and learnings from conversations with community leaders like this one with Bruce. And last thing, if you are still here and you enjoyed the episode, please review our podcast and click subscribe. It helps more people hear stories like Bruce's. Thank you. See you next time.